Anonymous 1541fa66536ebff54444031f3c0d72ae started this discussion 3 months (2008-09-05 02:02:26 UTC) ago:
I'm being honest here. Most of us are atheist, if there is no God then there is nothing to worry about going to hell. If we have no soul then we do not remember anything after we die. Even if our life was great or shitty it does not matter or if we are remembered or hated after we die is does not matter. We are dead, we can not enjoy the fame we had while living because have no soul or conciseness after death to be able to remember. Even if I were to enjoy life right now, it would not matter after death. I also believe that we are more animal than a being with conciseness which is why we have survival instincts that go against logic, which most atheists haven't killed themselves. Once one learns and is able to see, not necessarily control though since that is difficult, the instincts that we have by being human will show that what I have stated is logical and true.
Since there is no afterlife and no soul after death, there is no point to keep going. Why waste the time? It won't make a difference after death.
Please respond even if you think your idea may be stupid or even if it has to do with religion, because I really do not see the point to life any more. Not saying I'm going to do anything, since that would go against my survival instincts.
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Anonymous faeb21b91710638dfa9f81937c19d721 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 02:09:36 UTC) ago, 7 minutes later (#57,571):
You must be fourteen.
We all have thought about this, I do, often.
Anonymous 4fa2a8428d2804c94d78c67644e25ed6 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 02:27:14 UTC) ago, 18 minutes later (#57,577):
You seem very sure about what happens after death. The universe is a wacky place. Who knows what will happen? I don't believe in god and i do not hold any other supernatural beliefs, but you can't be sure about anything. Your description of death is most likely accurate (in this case, suicide is a logical measure indeed). But there is a small chance that it's not. This small chance is why we should be afraid of death, and cling to our relatively safe, present life.
Anonymous ce3f8ebff0928b3aab0358a113c436ce replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 02:32:15 UTC) ago, 5 minutes later (#57,578):
^There is a small chance I will win the lottery, but that does not mean I should waste my money playing. There is no reason to even believe in a small chance, not saying that it isn't likely, but it is flawed thinking to hold on to a "chance" (this "chance" mind you is nothing but what a book says, no science or logic to back up an afterlife).
Also, Sysops, this IS the OP and has been all along.
Anonymous faeb21b91710638dfa9f81937c19d721 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 02:34:26 UTC) ago, 2 minutes later (#57,579):
There are enjoyable things in life, and I guess you want to hold back until you can achieve what you want.
Anonymous ce3f8ebff0928b3aab0358a113c436ce replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 02:43:06 UTC) ago, 9 minutes later (#57,581):
^Whenever you get what you want you ALWAYS get bored with it or it is never enough. It becomes a never ending cycle and those things end up controlling you. I can say this because I am successful, own a house, had a family, all that bullshit everyone wants and in the end all it did was cause more pain. Even if you ARE happy it doesn't matter. You will die one day and not remeeber any of it, why bother? At least die happy, I'd rather die happy then sad anyway.
Anonymous b4a12e9e3b623abcf318e572246f0854 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 03:05:28 UTC) ago, 22 minutes later (#57,583):
"The fool has said in his heart, there is no God"
Psalm 14:1
Anonymous 3a07caf2ee892099dce86b5eef22f91a replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 03:21:41 UTC) ago, 16 minutes later (#57,584):
@57,581Yes, I am an atheist as well, and I believe that there is nothing after death. However, I plan to make the most of my time here. Think of why people play video games. Video games eventually end and nothing is achieved out of them. However, many people still play video games for enjoyment. This is essentially how I view life. Extract all the joy you can from them, even if it amounts to nothing in the end.
> I can say this because I am successful, own a house, had a family, all that bullshit everyone wants and in the end all it did was cause more pain.All that bullshit everyone wants? Have you tried looking at other things besides what everyone wants? Some people enjoy settling down with a family and buying house, some don't. I really don't think I would be the kind of person that would enjoy settling down, have you considered that you might not be either? If you're not happy with something, you must change it. You're line reminds me of kids that choose careers based on potential financial success instead of personal interest.
Anonymous ce3f8ebff0928b3aab0358a113c436ce replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 03:24:36 UTC) ago, 3 minutes later (#57,585):
^I need to go, I will be back later to read this, but you did get me thinking. I will give you that, but I still stand by what I said and I will post my points later.
Anonymous 2c26da8c4c650eab75c3d8563f305bc2 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 04:10:35 UTC) ago, 46 minutes later (#57,591):
Hmm. I'm an atheist as well. I have many theories about why life is "meaningful," but they are all just philosophies after all. These are in no particular order of relevance. I personally don't think I know the answer.
1. Meaning is defined through action. The Universe will repeat itself forever, so action is important. Basically the concept is everything you do will be done into infinity, as the dimensions will eventually collapse on themselves and repeat like a circle. Everything up and down of life will be repeated onto forever, so your only chance to make the the best of it is right now.
2. Meaning is defined through impact. Every person you meat, ever blade of grass you step on, every tiny little thing you do leaves a lasting impact. You impact everything and impacts you. Your existence can never be forgotten, because the tiniest variables that you changes will change all of existence, forever. If you were to believe this, I would say you would need to try to have as big of long-term impact on the world as humanly possible. Take over a country, take over the world, invent something revolutionary, etc.
3. Meaning is defined through survival. Some people give into the whole survival instinct and let it make them a stronger individual. I guess the way to live like this would be to either seek immortality (biologically stop aging/prosthetics/etc) or to just live as damn long as possible by staying as healthy as you can. Another approach would be passing on peices of yourself to a younger generation or building a heavily used AI that has your identical personality.
3. Meaning is defined by perspective. You have to find your own "meaning" in life, and no can do more than point you in the right direction. A very monk-like way of looking at things. A sub theory of this would be that you may define meaning through simply defining life. If this is the case, try absorbing all the possible experience you can, in order to further define your existence.
4. Meaning is defined through a summary of emotions. You must try and be happy and full as much as possible. You don't let any "negative" one's invade your psyche. (I personally don't like this theory, but it is a theory of mine regardless).
5. Meaning is defined through the collection of scholarly wisdom. If this is the case, absorb all the meaningful and trivial information you can find. The collection of information furthers your importance to existence as a whole. I have a friend who seems to believe in this one and the immortality one, oddly enough.
I could go on and on. I think giving up on life because science is able to define that there is MAYBE no afterlife is a little shortsighted.
Anonymous 6f30689625a648fe91b6390547f5a3b0 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 04:14:06 UTC) ago, 4 minutes later (#57,593):
> I'm being honest here. Most of us are atheist, if there is no God then there is nothing to worry about going to hell. If we have no soul then we do not remember anything after we die. Even if our life was great or shitty it does not matter or if we are remembered or hated after we die is does not matter. We are dead, we can not enjoy the fame we had while living because have no soul or conciseness after death to be able to remember. Even if I were to enjoy life right now, it would not matter after death. I also believe that we are more animal than a being with conciseness which is why we have survival instincts that go against logic, which most atheists haven't killed themselves. Once one learns and is able to see, not necessarily control though since that is difficult, the instincts that we have by being human will show that what I have stated is logical and true.
>
> Since there is no afterlife and no soul after death, there is no point to keep going. Why waste the time? It won't make a difference after death.
>
> Please respond even if you think your idea may be stupid or even if it has to do with religion, because I really do not see the point to life any more. Not saying I'm going to do anything, since that would go against my survival instincts.
I think my friend that you need to stop focusing on such matters of death and afterlives. Just go about your life and have fun because it's the only one you have. It's a challenge and aren't challenges fun people? Why do there have to be all of these god damn fucking negative atheists that have to bring everyone the fuck down? Why the fuck can't there be more "look at the glass half full" kinds of atheists here and other websites?
Sure it doesn't matter if we are remember, but wouldn't it be nice to know that you are. Isn't it a comforting feeling to know that people remember you after your death. If you're this depressed, I suggest you should commit suicide, because you're bringing everyone else down with this crap. I hate being reminded that someday I will die, in fact it's one fear I have whenever I go to sleep. I wish humanity were immortals. Seriously, stop thinking about death, stop thinking about God, stop thinking that there is nothing, and get out there and live already. I mean seriously.
Anonymous 2c26da8c4c650eab75c3d8563f305bc2 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 04:26:26 UTC) ago, 12 minutes later (#57,597):
@57,593I'm in a Death and Dying Psyc class. A LOT of people, especially hardcore atheists, have this fear of death (I know I do). It is in no way that abnormal, and it's ok to explore possibilities of the meaning of life. I for one want to know there's some REASON for hanging around. I define that reason for myself on a day to day basis. This fear roots itself mostly in America, and similar modern cultures, because we have censored and tabooed death as a subject. Almost every other society ever to exist had either high exposure to death, or death education / beliefs. We don't. Anyways, a nice fact for people worried about this: Your average life expectancy, in America, at least, is 75 and getting higher, and that is including accidents and disease and all that. I assume most users of this site are nowhere near this age.
Anonymous 2d66e0a3703d01957cb6ab27b4dc4953 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 05:15:44 UTC) ago, 49 minutes later (#57,613):
In the immortal words of DJ Sammy,
"Life is just a game.
We all end up the same."
Nothing matters, but I'm not a nihilist. I enjoy life and I am fearless of death. I WOULD feel kinda bad killing myself right now because that's like buying a game and then breaking the CD on purpose after you get stick on the first boss. My curiosity is what keeps me alive - a narrative curiosity. I want to know what's next. I want to experience things. I want to achieve things. I find things to do. I entertain myself. Even if I suffer, I'm alive. Even if life sucks, I would prefer to live. Life is an adventure. "All the world's a stage." It's beautiful. I love life.
Anonymous 3bb9ea18b38834487b59b5e715cab31e replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 05:18:15 UTC) ago, 3 minutes later (#57,616):
You are 100% right.
No point at all.
People think there is a point? THEY ARE WRONG!
Anonymous 177f7aba92b08c8ec32e1f8790915bad replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 06:41:52 UTC) ago, 1 hour later (#57,634):
I wouldn't have replied but since you asked for my opinion here it comes.
I know what you mean. I see the primitive animal guiding almost everyone's lives. It's a part of ourselves we prefer not to know about, along with other infantile traits. I mean it's very hard to get rid of something so deep rooted and complex.
I can understand realizing there is no point to life is troubling, but you didn't seem to care before you realized this.
I got to say not being afraid of death is something. Or are you afraid? I mean you should be afraid. You're a living organism and living organisms want to survive. But life or death it doesn't make any difference to me. I think the world is made of suffering and hapiness. It should be balanced, you know. But to me it seems like there is so much more suffering than hapiness. Also, people confuse pleasure with hapiness, when actually i think that indulging in pleasure or seeking hapiness in pleasures will lead to more suffering.
Basicly i just want to experience life as a whole. Suffering and hapiness. Not being afraid of death, but not being suicidal. If you actually read that i'm sorry for being unclear. I did retype myself quite a few times but my beliefs have been acquired recently and i'm still assimilating it.
Anonymous 48856a75757eaddd4790b5a3dfc3a86c replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 08:18:58 UTC) ago, 2 hours later (#57,647):
^No, I'm not when I am conscious. The few times I have gotten close to death (they were sudden) I get a rush and my basic instincts over take myself.
I know everyone is saying enjoy life, focus on being happy, I"m curious what happens next, but it doesn't matter. Just like the quote form above, in the end we all die. You, me, your dog, your kids, your kids kids, everyone you ever knew and loved, the grass you walk on, all of it. When that death happens it does not matter. It may be comforting in life to know you will be remembered for ever for doing something, but once you are dead it doesn't matter because you will not remember it.
Anonymous 2c26da8c4c650eab75c3d8563f305bc2 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 09:02:14 UTC) ago, 43 minutes later (#57,652):
@57,647Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Do you play video games? Why? It doesn't matter. Posting here doesn't matter either. Maybe it's ok to be sort of like an animal sometimes: doing things, because you can, because it 'feels' good. If being remembered for eternity doesn't matter, define 'what matters.' It seems like, you, yourself view existing as very important, even though you clearly don't realize it. Saying that it doesn't matter just because of death is acknowledging that your persistence and existence is what makes things interesting.
Anonymous e833dee016b62f41bec015823c9f3131 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 16:02:18 UTC) ago, 7 hours later (#57,704):
I myself am agnostic. Not for being different than an atheist so much, as I do lean that way for the most part. I just like to consider everything from possibilities. It's possible that there is a creator deity, but it's also possible that there is not. That aside, I think that most people realize that there is little point to our own lives as individuals, and some also realize that there is little point to the persistence of humanity (those that consider it to exist at all), or existence itself… All just levels of objectivity on what "matters".
At some point you might ask yourself, "What would be better, nothing (the most likely outcome of suicide) or simply experiencing whatever may come and embracing it?" Nothing only ever really seems like a good idea if there is absolutely nothing else for you to experience (such as you feel as though you can abstract everything away into something mundane and repeated over and over day after day) or you simply cannot bear some stressor in your present environment that is unavoidable. So for most of us I assume that we're just tagging along for the ride. Some people when confronted with all of that might "realize" that "nothing matter" so much that they even become sociopaths… if that's considered a valid term anymore. So they become mass-murderers or rapists or… power-seekers in general I suppose, doing everything in their power to gain control over as much as possible.
My own personal perspective has been that the most fulfilling thing a person can do in their lives is to create and observe as much beauty as they can in their life. The beauty being completely relative to the individual…. their personality, life experiences to date, et cetera. It could be fear in a persons eyes as you exert power over them, look of relief as you pleasure or otherwise help them… injecting your comments into a forum knowing it will inspire criticism and/or praise, too many possibilties.
If anyone finishes reading all of that, thank you for bearing with me. All in all I think life is simple, either you want to control the world around you to some degree and/or you simply want to observe it to another.
Anonymous e0d0f49445fc02a624f9d405f15a4bd8 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-05 20:41:39 UTC) ago, 5 hours later (#57,753):
@57652As of now I do these thing because they "feel good." This discussion has some meaning so that is excluded, but it also does "feel good." If there is nothing wrong with embracing the animal part of yourself, and basing this on societal views, then killing yourself would be a good thing due to over population and food shortages. In that matter, it would actually be best to kill off the weaker members of society to rid them of their drain on us, it would be acceptable since we are nothing but animals. If you are an atheist, intelligent, and conscious being, then why continue to to live knowing your life will not make a difference to you once you are gone? Either way of thinking results in death being a good thing or suicide be completely rational.
I know many of you say to experience everything that life has to offer, but it doesn't matter. Once you are dead you will not remember it, so there was no point. It's like having sex with a super model but you and no one else remembers it, which means it doesn't matter since you are not reminded of it, but you will have the wasted gas and money that you spent to fuck her. Same thing with this, we will not remember after death so why bother now? There is no point to continue.
Anonymous 2c26da8c4c650eab75c3d8563f305bc2 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-06 07:21:41 UTC) ago, 11 hours later (#57,863):
@57,753Yeah, well, you can look at it any way you like. Want to know my personal perspective, open philosophy aside? I think that life is beautiful. It is full of the deepest, most terrible, pain, and the most indescribable of joy. The contrast in everything makes it so god damn amazing. Because, contrast is needed to make anything worthwhile, thus death coincides with life. If there wasn't death, than life would have no meaning. I see things in the exact opposite light that you do. Don't get me wrong, I'm scared as shit of death, but it is a necessary evil. I hate pain, but I realize, every time I feel that pain, that it makes the little joy I get, later, that much better. I've thought really hard on this, before, and that is where I always find myself.
Anonymous b43285f65a084a3c2a1f41e0ff25baf8 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-06 13:58:35 UTC) ago, 7 hours later (#57,930):
^But that joy does not matter once you are dead. Can someone answer that please?
Anonymous 4d8e9732e8e501bf9aed87a45d9c7805 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-06 20:00:09 UTC) ago, 6 hours later (#57,977):
What the fuck!? Is there not a shard of selfishness in your cognitive mind?
Living and Loving are the two most selfish acts a human can commit. Both are can be extremely enjoyable. Eat it up. God and After are irrelevant in this active state since no one can prove anything. Work with what can be proven and ignore the men in their pulpits and those that claim that there is nothing.
Anonymous 9d48a394ecb87dc983b896a2ed66f2ec replied with this 3 months (2008-09-06 21:53:02 UTC) ago, 2 hours later (#57,997):
Okay, this is how I see it. It's bullshit, but it works for me.
To us, our lives seem like a continuum of events, starting from our birth and ending to our death, and then when it's over, it's as if the universe itself might end. Everything's gone. That's it. But in fact, from the perspective of the universe, time is just one more dimension, one that can be moved back and forth in, just the same as any other. It just happens that we human beings are hurtling down it to one direction.
In time, we are finite beings, just as we are in direction - but nobody claims that life is meaningless because one doesn't fill the entire universe. That would be silly. The same applies to our existence in time: our finiteness in time is no different than our finiteness in direction. Why? Because the important thing is, even if we are not the ONLY thing in the universe, we're still part of it. Right? For the exact same reason, even once we have perished, we still continue to exist - in the time in which we were alive.
So yes, our life eventually comes to an end, but it will still have BEEN. Our existence does not cease after we die, but rather, our life as a whole continues to exist in the fabric of time as a monument of our brief existence in the universe. Now isn't that a good enough reason to make one's existence as cool as possible?
Anonymous 3a07caf2ee892099dce86b5eef22f91a replied with this 3 months (2008-09-06 22:47:13 UTC) ago, 54 minutes later (#58,015):
@57,997No, it makes no difference, because when you're dead, you'll be just as unthinking as when you weren't born. Nothing matters because the universe is experienced through your thinking mind. Once your mind goes, the universe effectively ceases to exist.
Anonymous 2c26da8c4c650eab75c3d8563f305bc2 replied with this 3 months (2008-09-06 23:43:45 UTC) ago, 57 minutes later (#58,032):
@58,015Well nothing matters to you. That is probably (given that we don't know if you ever do cease to exist) true. However, it might matter to someone else (many of the attachment theories argue this), or something else (the 'being written, forever, into the fourth dimension' argument, presented above). I think everyone's knowledge on this subject is too limited by our current technological evolution and human inability to comprehend something defined outside of our current existence. I don't think anyone can draw any real conclusions, because we do not, as a species, know enough.
Anonymous 5e439d6e537b2cdfcef0a31ba39258be replied with this 3 months (2008-09-09 19:47:21 UTC) ago, 3 days later (#58,871):
Life is irrelevant, a mere instant of no significance. Even if you were a great man whose actions affected generations on end -rather unlikely- your life would still amount to not much.
Still ice cream tastes great.
Why would you deprive yourself of ice cream, Mussolini?
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