I get tired of seeing guys whine about the "friend zone" and how they're stuck in it. At the moment I feel that humanity is a horrible free-for-all of selfish shaved monkeys, and it puts me in the mood for some altruism, so I'm going to share the truth with you.

If you don't like it or disagree, that's just too damned bad. I've gone from "long time friend" to "boyfriend" with something like 6 girls in my short years, and I know what I'm fucking talking about, so just listen the fuck up and take some notes.

The truth:

The friend zone is a fucking lie. All of my girlfriends have been friends for anywhere from two weeks to a few years before we hooked up.

Things change, relationships change. You just have to know how to induce that change, and what you should be doing when you try to cross the border from "friend" to "lover."

For brevity's sake there are 3 things you want to do:

1. Make sure you have her respect. Be hygienic and clean around her. Don't swear. Don't show weakness. Show achievement. Don't lose your composure and freak out over anything. Don't make an ass out of yourself in any social situation.

2. REFUSE TO BE HER FRIEND. Keep being nice to her and keep hanging out with her but don't go shopping with her or any other traditionally feminine activity. If she starts talking "girl talk" with you, especially on the subject of any men she may be interested in, tell her you don't fucking want to hear it and that she should save it for her girlfriends. If she psychologically differentiates you from her little girlfriends and starts seeing you as a man, you have a far, far better shot of navigating this transition. NEVER EVER LISTEN TO HER PROBLEMS and NEVER EVER GIVE HER ADVICE, AT ALL, EVER. EVEN A LITTLE BIT. If you start giving her advice and listening to her problems then you're basically one of her shopping girlfriends and you're fucked.

3. Achieve some form of dominance over her, or impress her in some other way. Find some way to take a leader role in her life. Again, no advice, do this via action. If she gets into trouble, you have to be the one saving her ass somehow. Assuming you're savvy enough, provide her with irreplaceable social backup and make sure that if she forgets something important or does something irresponsible, correct it automatically. Combined with not giving advice, this will display the fact that you are wiser and more responsible than her, and combined with not listening to her problems this will make you into more of a father/big brother figure than a confidant.

After you have done these things, Freudian mechanisms dictate that she will fall in love with you whether she wants to or not, and she will be receptive to your advances, assuming she isn't caught up with some other dude.

If you find out that she's flirting with someone else, don't try to punish her for it, instead find out what she finds attractive about him and do it better. Then her attention should be focused on you enough for those Freudian mechanisms to work their magic.

The first 3 steps serve essentially to get you out of the friend zone and put you in a good position to seduce. Now, you have to take advantage.

Taking advantage: Break down barriers. Force her to get comfortable with your advances. Ask her, bluntly, "Want to go on a date?" Date her. Rapidly encroach upon her personal space. Hug her. Tickle her. Hold her hand. Make sure you keep a hand on her most of the time. Once she's used to that, the next big hurdle is kissing her. It's simple - you just do it. Do not wait for a good time. If you're both somewhat flustered from playing grab-ass all night, the first second you're alone is a good enough opportunity to kiss her. Just do it. Say nothing, just grab her and kiss her. Don't wait for an "opportunity" or a "moment," because that's shopping buddy bullshit and life isn't like the movies. In reality the first kiss is awkward, and the best way to make it go well is to just do it.

Once you're kissing, kissing leads to making out. Once you're regularly getting together and making out, just start taking items of clothes off of her. Each of these successive steps should be attempted after at least one encounter, no earlier: Start with just her shoes & socks.* Work up to top-off, bra-on. Then maybe top-off. The next time you get her topless, suck on her nipples. Play with her breasts. Once you get down to playing with her breasts, the next time you get together, get her pants off so she's just in panties. When she's in panties, play with her crotch area. Bury your nose in her vag and tickle her clit through her underwear. Dry-hump your penis against her vag, just like you're penetrating. The time after that encounter, you WILL get laid.

There you go. Follow that and you will never have friend-zone problems ever again, ever. Enjoy, anon. I know some of you out there need to read this.

*Shoes & socks: If you have a foot fetish, wait to indulge it. You don't want to throw that at her right away.

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Surprisingly good advice. I'm far from socially retarded and I still picked something out of that.

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By your experience, if you have given shopping buddy bullshit advice long in the past, can you just stop and act this way, then keep it up for a while to have a similar effect? Or is it relatively certain that you're FUCKED fucked?

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WOW.
I usually follow all of that except for I tend to give out advice a lot.
This is awesome advice.
Thanks a lot.
I'll try it out on some of my future friends :]

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@69,631

Good, good. I'm glad everyone likes it.

I just lost my girlfriend due to circumstances entirely beyond my control. Relationship is almost totally dissolved due to her excessive career-mindedness and Japanese nationalism. Now I'll have to live up to my 2 pages of advice and score myself another girlfriend.

I'll let you anon know what my tactics are as I go through this process in case I happen to notice anything that could be useful to you guys.

Off topic: Bah, nationalism. Nationalism and racism are the disease destroying humanity and keeping us from getting along as a species. It will never go away though. I think tonight has made me even more bitterly racist and nationalist than I have ever at any one point been in my entire life.

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What the fuck are you talking about nationalism for dude?

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People need to realize the last bit more often: your fetishes really do have to wait. Holy shit. Something like a foot fetish is approximately as tame as a fetish could possibly be but it will still scare the hell out of most people if you throw it out there too soon. They generally will think you have a bunch of other, more insane shit in store and will get a massive bonerkill for the whole budding relationship.

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Alright, there's this girl at my school, grade older than me. She's hella cute, and I'm not ugly myself. I'm a bit fat, but nothing crazy and untouchable, still good looking. Anyways. I've delved deep, DEEP into the friend zone. I've read your post, and I agree with mostly all of it. If I stopped giving her all advice, she might think I'm a dick, especially if I tell her to fuck off every time she tries to talk to me about something. Is there any, 'nicer' way around this? And do you have any other points of interest you can relay to me?

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You want a nicer way, just shy away from advice and say you don't know, that's about as nice as you can get. Nice isn't exactly the objective here though.

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@69,727

This is true. Nice is not a goal here. You will end up treating her like crap once in a while to get what you want.

In broad principle, one of the things I did not mention is that quite often if you treat girls like shit, they will love you for it as long as you're properly domineering when you do it.

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Yeah, that's mostly true. The more general tip is to treat girls according to how they are. Crap women will love you for treating them the right way, which is like crap. Good women who know it will usually want you to treat them in a good way.

Since most people in general are crap, the first strategy nets more women.

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Hate to say it, but a lot of this would probably be pretty helpful for picking up girls…Except for the shopping thing. I think most girls like it when a guy will go shopping with them. I do anyway because I like it, and it's nice if a guy doesn't mind it either so I don't feel like I'm boring the shit out of him if he comes along. At least most of the guys I liked didn't mind going to stores and looking at shit with me. I'm not talking about just girly clothes either.

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This guy is wise

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most of this is pretty good. (i tend to give advise or to listen when really important to the girl, though … if you have good advice to give and aren't soft on her, that should be okay.)

just be careful not to lose your interest in the girl as a person, or you will soon find yourself not even liking her after having made her love you, and i don't think it's necessary to hurt a girls feelings unnecessarily.

getting laid though seems to awfully overcomplicated in your description, i normally get there much easier, with much less effort and normally much faster, but okay, i'm european and i'm good at that stuff, too.

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